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Messages - Rancid Crabtree

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346
Whitetail Deer / Potential expansion of crossbows in WI
« on: October 11, 2007, 07:03:03 AM »
It looks as though WI might have crossbow hunting for all ages and all abilities sooner than even I thought it might. This push is not coming from the crossbow manufacturers as is typically claimed. It is coming from hunters who want to use the weapon but it not coming from deer hunters. Back in spring, both the WI NWTF and the WI bear hunters voted to seek a rules change that would allow those two species to be hunted with a crossbow by all persons if they so choose.

In WI both of these species can be hunted within there respective seasons with firearms as well as archery gear so these two orgs voted to seek the use of crossbows as well. The Wisconsin Bowhunters Assoc. is opposed to the use of crossbows during archery season for deer and I don't blame them for taking this stance. The issue here is that, turkey hunters enjoy both a spring and fall season, The fall season now runs concurrently with the early archery season for deer. The bear season is also a fall season that runs during archery season for deer. If this request is granted and rules change allowing all persons of all abilities to use a crossbow, You could see turkey hunters and bear hunters hunting with crossbows, right along side bowhunters seeking deer.

I can foresee the potential of this scenario happening. Joe the hunter while using his crossbow is sitting in his tree stand or ground blind with a turkey tag, a bear tag and an archery deer tag in his pocket. While he waits, a deer comes within range so he shoots it and as some hunters do, he leaves the area before trailing the deer. He goes back to his vehicle and retrieves his vertical bow, leaves the crossbow behind and takes up the blood trail.  I don't think it is a stretch to think this might happen and the temptation would certainly be their.

If the rules change passes, then I see either a change in dates for the seasons to avoid the overlap or a fast track for the crossbow to be added to the regular deer archery season.

347
General Discussion / Lowering the youth hunting age and mentoring
« on: October 09, 2007, 07:48:51 AM »
I was just reading through the paperwork from the state in regards to budget setting for CWD. The document is titled


2007 − 2008 LEGISLATURE


SENATE SUBSTITUTE AMENDMENT 1,
 

TO 2007 SENATE BILL 40
 

June 20, 2007 − Offered by JOINT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE.


As I read through it I came across some interesting information pertaining to Wisconsin's youth hunters. I got to the part where they made amendments to Chapter 29 of the WI state statutes (chapter 29 pertains to wildlife animals and plants as well as hunting regs) On page 450 was wording that at first looked like they were amending the price for youth tags for archery, gun, small game, etc., but after a closer look, I realized that the changes were not in the fee amount but rather the language pertaining to the age of the youth hunters. The old statutes referred to youth hunters as being 12 year olds to 17 year olds. They have stricken those words and replaced it to read "persons who are under 18 years of age"

I believe this to be a first step to lowering the youth hunting age in WI and to let them hunt without taking the hunters safety class as part of the youth mentoring plan because on page 452 it reads

 
29.592 Hunting mentorship program. (1) A person who is at least 12 years of age, or the age specified by the department by rule under sub. (5), whichever age is lower, may hunt in this state without obtaining a certificate of accomplishment under s. 29.591 and may, while hunting, possess or control a firearm if all of the following apply:


a) At all times when hunting, the person is within arm’s reach of a mentor who meets the qualifications under sub. 2).(b) The person holds a hunting approval.


2) No person may serve as a qualified mentor for a hunter unless the person meets all of the following requirements:


a) The person is 18 years of age or older.


b) The person is the parent or guardian of the person for whom he or she is serving as a mentor or is authorized by the parent or guardian to serve as a mentor. This requirement does not apply to a person serving as a mentor for a person who is 18 years of age or older.


c) At all times when serving as a mentor, the person is within arm’s reach of the person for whom he or she is serving as a mentor.


d) The person has been issued a certificate of accomplishment under s. 29.591,or under s. 29.595 if the person is serving as a mentor for hunting elk, unless the person was born before January 1, 1973, and is not required to obtain a certificate of accomplishment.


e) The person holds a current valid hunting approval.


3) A mentor under this section may take only one person, for whom he or she is serving as a mentor, hunting at a time.


4) The department shall issue to each person to whom the department issues a hunting approval a pamphlet, developed by the department, that contains hunter safety information if the person is not required to obtain a certificate of accomplishment under s. 29.591 and is authorized to hunt with a mentor under this section.


5) The department may promulgate rules lowering the minimum age specified in sub. (1) for purposes of this section. SECTION 717d. 29.593 (1) (a) of the statutes is amended to read: 29.593 (1) (a) Except as provided under subs. (2), (2m) and (3) and s. 29.592 (1), no person born on or after January 1, 1973, may obtain any approval authorizing hunting unless the person is issued a certificate of accomplishment under s. 29.591.


What are your thoughs about this? Here are the links to this document as well as the link to Chapter 29 of the statutes.


http://www.legis.state.wi.us/2007/data/SB40-SSA1.pdf


http://www.legis.state.wi.us/statutes/Stat0029.pdf



348
Whitetail Deer / Valuable video, worth watching
« on: October 04, 2007, 06:56:20 AM »
The videos of our last CWD presentation are now on the DNR web site. I would highly recommend that you view them. There are only two to view but at least, you should watch the presentation by Jordan Petchenick. His presentation is 58 minutes long and our questions begin at the 43 minute mark. Some good questions about money and the food pantry were asked. Also questions about the cost of CWD testing were asked and some thing reveled by our panel member who represents the captive deer industry. His question starts at about the 49:30 minute mark. There are a lot of good money questions here. A lot of what we have been discussing here is addressed in this video presentation. Go to the attached link at

http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/org/land/wildlife/whealth/issues/CWD/advisory.htm

Near the bottom of the page you will see

It's Not Just About Deer: The Human Dimensions of Managing CWD  [VIDEO Length 58:06]

I think you would all benefit for viewing this.

349
Big Game Recipes / Venison Runza or Kraut Koogan
« on: October 01, 2007, 09:48:22 AM »
These go by a lot of diff. names but no matter what you call them, they are great.

INGREDIENTS:

Bread dough (2 loaves) Or make your own dough (see below)
2 lbs Venison Hamburger
1 Head cabbage (chopped)
2 Medium onion (chopped)
Salt and pepper to taste (it takes a lot)

DIRECTIONS:

Thaw two loaves of frozen bread dough or make the equivalent amount using your favorite bread recipe. While dough thaws, make the filling.

Brown the hamburger and drain, then return to pan. Add cabbage and onion and cook down. Salt and pepper to taste (1 tsp pepper recommended).

Let dough rise, then punch down and roll a portion to 1/4" thickness. Cut into 4" x 8" pieces and add about 1/2 cup meat mixture to each. Fold dough pieces over and seal the edges, then place seam-side-down on a greased cookie sheet.

Let rise 20-30 minutes, then bake in pre-heated 375 degree oven for 20 minutes or until brown. 

Dough (if you want to make your own): 

2 pkg. Active dry Yeast
2 cups warm milk
1/2-cup sugar
1/2 t. salt
2 eggs - beaten
1/2 cup shortening, margarine or butter
7 to 8 cups all-purpose flour

Put yeast and milk in a bowl.  Let sit for 5 minutes.  Add sugar, salt, eggs and softened butter. 
Mix. Gradually add flour while mixing.  Add flour until dough pulls together into a ball.  Knead for 4
or 5 minutes or until dough is smooth.  (This really works best with a free-standing mixer with a
dough hook)

Put in a greased bowl, cover with a towel and allow to rise until double. 

Punch down and let it rise again.

Remove dough from bowl and divide into thirds.  On a floured surface, roll one portion of the
dough to 1/4” thickness.  Cut into 6” circles.  (Reserve dough you cut off to reroll more.) 

Give each circle an extra roll with the rolling pin before filling.

Making Runzas:

Put a large mound of filling on the center of each dough circle.  Pull sides of the
dough together and pinch to hold. Pinch all edges together to seal in filling.  Turn Runza over and put on a cookie sheet



Space Runzas about 1 inch apart. When cookie sheet is full put a towel over it and let it rise for
about 15 minutes. 

Bake Runzas in a 350 degree oven for 15 to 20 minutes – until they are a deep brown.

Remove from oven and rub butter on the top of each Runza.

Cool on cooling rack or eat them now! They can be frozen and reheated but we never have any leftovers to freeze.

These make a great meal while in the deer woods. Wrap warm in foil and enjoy later.


350
Big Game Recipes / Protecting your investment
« on: October 01, 2007, 09:47:01 AM »
After you have gone through so much work to bring home some fresh venison, you will want to make sure it will taste good even after it sits in your freezer for several months. It is true that no meat is ever improved by freezing but you can make the best of it by protecting your venison from the effects of freezer burn. I prefer a vacuum sealer but not everybody has one. If you wrap your meat in butcher/freezer paper, it won't last long in your freezer. You need to use a heavy plastic wrap first. Wrap your meat in layers and press out as much air as you can. Start with a single layer of plastic wrap. Place the meat on the wrap and roll it up tightly. This will still leave the ends exposed it it is a large cut.


Next, wrap the meat in another layer of plastic wrap but this time, turn the meat and wrap in the other direction. Fold over the plastic wrap to protect the previously exposed ends.


While wrapping, squeeze out as much air as you can. You do not want a layer of air next to the meat. The plastic wrap should be in contact with the meat.


Now that you have two layers of plastic wrap over the meat. Wrap the meat again in a good quality freezer paper that has a plastic coating on one side. Use enough so that when you are finished, you will have two layers of paper over the plastic wrap.


While rolling/wrapping, make sure to tuck in and fold the ends to make a good seal. Again, make sure to squeeze out as much air as possible. Seal the paper with tape, Identify the cuts and the date and this meat should last six months in your freezer. I have come across a lost package or two in the bottom of my freezer that were a year old and they were just as good as the day I wrapped them.

351
Big Game Recipes / What can you expect?
« on: October 01, 2007, 09:45:11 AM »
How much meat do you expect to get off your deer? It has been my experience that I get about 55% of the hanging dressed weight for a deer that is shot with the bow. That is to say a deer with no wasted meat due to the wound. A gun killed deer will yield less meat due to all the bullet damage. Here is what you can expect to get from your deer. Most folks are surprised at how much loss there is to the final weight of the meat you will yield. When I butcher deer for other folks, I record the weights of the things like the head, legs, hide, bone and trim. I show that to them these numbers when they pick up their meat ( I don't want folks thinking I am keeping their meat from them)
The worst case I have ever had was a gun shot fawn that was hit through the hind quarters. I returned that hunter 14 pounds of meat. Shot placement will dictate how much meat you can recover. I guess that is why I am more of a bow hunter than a gun hunter.

Live wgt..................Dressed Wgt..................Boneless meat

90#............................70....................................39
125#..........................99....................................57
150#.........................120...................................68
180#.........................143...................................79
210#.........................170...................................94
240#.........................195...................................108
290#.........................233...................................130



Boneless Hind
1) Eye of Round
2) Bottom Round
3) Top Sirloin
4) Top Round
5) Sirloin Tip
6) Tenderloins
7) Backstraps

Boneless Front
8 ) Neck
9) Shoulder
10) Top Blade
11) Mock Tender

352
Big Game Recipes / Butchering your own Deer
« on: October 01, 2007, 09:43:39 AM »
While butchering a bow kill, I took some pictures of two other parts of the deer that you would encounter while doing your own processing. These are the tenderloins and the front shoulders. The tenderloins are the two small cuts of meat on the inside of the deer's rib cage. (the loins are on the outside and run along either side of the spine) These are the most tender of all the cuts of meat on a deer (or cow or pig) There are two tenderloins and they are located along the spine between the rib cage and the hind quarters


Start by cutting them at the point where they are closest to the hind quarter and run your knife along the short ribs and the spine. Peel them down as you cut.


When removed you will see the short ribs of the deer


This what they look like after being removed. Remove any white fat before cooking. I prefer to remove them when I a gutting the deer  (or very soon afterwards) If you don't get them out soon, the exposed areas will turn dark red/black due to drying out. If that happens, soak them in cold (ice) water and scrub them lightly to wash away any blood. DO NOT freeze tenderloins!! these are to be enjoyed as soon as possible. Freezing will make them less than tender-loins. Cook them until slightly pink in the center with onions and mushrooms.


The front shoulders have a lot of bone and will be damaged most of the time due to shot placement. Unlike the hind quarters, the front legs are not connected to the body by a bone joint. The only thing keeping them in place is meat. After skinning, pull the front leg away from the rib cage and cut the stretched meat. They are very easy to remove. This is what it will look like. You can see the ridge bone that runs the length of the scapula


Run your knife on both sides of the ridge bone


Cut along the bone until you have exposed the entire scapula


Follow the leg bone and remove the rest of the meat. There is no wrong way to do this. This meat will end up in a grinder or made into stew or jerky. It is a tough cut of meat as these muscles do a lot of work.


These are the three bones of the front leg. The blue object is my crude depiction of the heart. You can see the the leg bones do a pretty good job of protecting the heart but it still can be gotten to by correct shot placement. It is better to shoot a little high and then you will still get both lungs and the top of the heart, this is a deadly shot that will bring a deer down in very short order.


Don't be afraid of cutting up your own deer. You will learn alot about deer anatomy and shot placement.

353
Big Game Recipes / De-boning a venison hind quarter
« on: October 01, 2007, 09:39:12 AM »
Some folks are intimidated by butchering their own deer and opt for paying a processor to do it for them. If you have a garage, a place to hang a deer and a knife. You could do it yourself. Most folks get scared when it comes to the hind quarters because they are not professional butchers and fear that they will screw up cuts of meat. Trust me if you follow the natural seams of fat, you will find it very easy to take apart the hind quarters. If you mess up on the first one, you always have the other leg to improve on. Once you have removed the meat from the rest of the deer you will be left with the hanging hind quarters where the spine meets the pelvis.


You can use a saw to remove the spine or you can work a knife in between the vertebrae to remove it near the pelvis.




Take the pair of hind quarters to a table to debone them. The first step is to lay the pair on the tail end and press on each hind quarter to see where the hip is. By spreading the hindquarters, you will see where to start. What you are looking for is the hip joint (ball and socket joint) No saws are needed for this operation and you only need to cut the tendon in the ball joint to remove it from the pelvis.


Follow the seams in the meat and cut along the pelvis bone until one half is removed.


When you are done. You will have a de-boned pelvis with very little meat to trim off. (use this for burger or sausage)


On the inside of the thigh you will be able to feel the thigh bone (femur). Cut around and remove the bone. This is the bone you are removing. The ball joint is on the upper right.


Once deboned your hind quarter will look like this. This view is from the outside or hide side of the leg. The lines show you the cuts of meat that are in the hind quarter. If you were to leave the bone in the leg and saw across the whole hind quarter, you would have a "Whole Round Steak" Most folks don't do this with a deer and it is seen less and less in beef as well


Follow the natural seams in the muscle groups and you will be able to take each group out. Clean up any fat and you are left with cuts that can be sliced into steaks or used as roasts


Take the time to try and butcher your own deer. You will learn a lot and save some money too.

354
Big Game Recipes / Venison Brats or Italians
« on: October 01, 2007, 09:35:17 AM »
For a 10 pound batch

5 pounds of lean Venison
5 pounds of fatty pork Or ground pork
5 tbsp salt
1 tbsp cracked fennel seed
2 tsp course black pepper
1 tbsp sugar
3 tsp crushed hot pepper (more if you like)
1 tsp caraway seeds
1 tbsp coriander
2 1/2 cups ice water.

Grind both meats and mix by hand.
Mix all spices and water and pour over meat
Mix by hand again
grind meat again through a finer plate than the first grind
If you have a sausage stuffer you can make links.
If you don't have a stuffer you can make Italian patty's
there just as good but you use a hamb. bun instead.

For Bratwurst, you leave out the Fennel and the hot pepper and add 2 tsp of mustard powder

Pics make it easier to explain.

Step 1. Get your kid to skin the deer. Tell him you need to take pics.



Step 2. Get your kid to grind up and mix the meat. Use the same excuse from step 1.



After he stuffs and twists the links (while you take pics) Allow him to cook some for you and him.

355
Big Game Recipes / Canning deer meat
« on: October 01, 2007, 09:34:11 AM »
If you can boil water. You can can deer meat. I cut the deer into cubes about 1 1/2 inches square but it doesn't really matter what the shape is. I then pack the raw meat into pint jars and press the meat down tight.
 


I sprinkle 1/2 teaspoon of salt onto the meat and place the lid and ring on the jar



a lot of WI is around 1100 feet above sea level so I pressure cook mine at 15 psi If you are under 1000 feet above sea level you can use 10 psi. I cook it for 75 minutes.



I then remove the canning kettle from the heat and let it sit for five min. I then run it under cold water until the pressure is normalized. That's it.







Canned meat has a long shelf life and requires no freezing. It is a good way to use an old tough deer as pressure cooking tenderizes the meat. It tastes great. I add a couple of cans of meat to a pot of gravy and fork it apart and then serve it over potatoes or rice or noodles. If you want to flavor the meat. You can add BBQ sauce to the can before pressure cooking.

356
Big Game Recipes / Venison Canadian Bacon
« on: October 01, 2007, 09:33:19 AM »
I make this with deer loin just like it is made from pork loin.

If you don't want to give up a loin, any roast seperated from the hind quarter will work.
I make a brine using:
5 quarts of ice cold water
6 Oz. white or brown sugar
2 Oz. insta cure (it is also called prague powder #1 or speed cure)
8 Oz. of salt.

That's it. Trim your meat very lean and soak it in the brine for 6 days in the fridge.(you gotta plan ahead) Remove from brine and rinse. Place meat in smoker pre-heated to 130F with the damper wide open. Hold at this temp for 4 hours without smoke, Turn the temp up to 150F and close the damper to half open add wood chips for a moderate smoke and hold for 3 more hours. increase temp to 160 and close dampers. Hold meat at this temp until the internal temp of the venison is 155F. Remove from smoker and run under cold tap water until the internal temp is 100F. Pat dry with paper towel and refig. overnight. I like it fried with eggs but it is good cold on a sandwich. You can see from the pic it is much darker than pork that I smoked at the same time but it has the same sweet flavor. Enjoy.



Fry it up with some fatty bacon and enjoy.

357
Archery / Single Bevel Broadheads, Damage photos
« on: September 29, 2007, 12:43:47 PM »
I have not yet been able to get out into the woods yet this year with my bow and I am itching to try these new broadheads I made. I am really curious about the single bevel blades and what they will do.



As luck would have it, a neighbor brought me a fresh archery kill to process for him. I asked him if it would be ok to test my heads on his deer. He didn't mind since he wanted the whole deer ground into sausage and/or burger. So here she is. All 68 pounds of her (dressed) I would have loved to be trying this on a 150 pound deer but beggars can't be choosers.



I made three shots from 10 yards with my 45 pound longbow that shoots an arrow at a blazing 142 FPS. the first two were through the ribs and the final one hit the shoulder blade at the point where the flat and the "T" meet, right near the ball joint. This is (in my opinion) the largest and thickest bone section in the upper shoulder. I admit that hitting this far forward is not a good place to aim on a live animal but things happen beyond our control. I of course hit this spot with pin point precision on purpose.



The rib shots were complete pass throughs but the shoulder shot ended up with just the fletches sticking out entrance side. I know there were no lungs in the deer but they don't offer much in the way of resistance any way. Also consider that this deer was cold and stiff as rigor mortise had set in so I consider all things equal.
 

Right off the bat, I noticed the "S" shaped cuts that Dr. Ashby had spoke about. This was the case on both the entrance and exit holes.



*** Word of caution***
When you pull the arrow back out of the deer (through a bone) and you have sharpened your broadheads on the trailing edge as well as the main edge. Make sure to keep your fingers clear even though you need to hold the deer steady while retrieving the arrow.



After a brief bit of first aid, I began to skin the deer, I noticed that both of the rib shots had completely missed hitting ribs on both sides. My goal was to break a rib to see the results but I must have used up all my luck..... I mean skill on that shoulder shot.



I then removed the shoulder and boned it out.



Just as described by Dr. Ashby, the "S" shaped cut and the bone had split completely  being held at the joint end by only some soft fibers.





As expected, the single bevel head is a real bone breaker/splitter. I know this is a very small deer but again, I was using a rather low power bow. Take from this what you will but I am even more pleased with the single bevel heads. This sort of thing is not necessary with todays super fast and powerful bows hunting whitetails but for those using traditional archery gear, or those going after large or dangerous game, we are looking for every advantage we can get

358
Whitetail Deer / Re: notes from our most current CWD meeting
« on: September 28, 2007, 06:21:02 AM »
I think all of us agree that removing the infections prions from the soil is impossible and that will have a huge impact on our dicision making process. Fewer deer and infected soils don't help anybody.

359
Whitetail Deer / notes from our most current CWD meeting
« on: September 25, 2007, 09:31:49 AM »
Well, meeting number 3 of the CWD Advisory group is behind us. We heard from Jordan Petchenick, the resource biologist for the DNR. His presentation was called "What do Wisconsinites think?" I've already read a lot of Jordan's work and was impressed with the info he has gathered in the last few years. What it boils down to is that what hunters say they will do and what they actually do are two different things. and that there is a real disconnect between hunters attitudes and DNR goals on how to manage not only the disease but also the deer herd. The agency realizes (correctly so) that despite their best ideas and efforts that without support of hunters and landowners, they are powerless.
 
They admit that hunters have told the DNR that they have little or no fear over CWD effecting their personal health. Surveys have shown that if CWD was proven to be a serious health issue to people or cattle that hunters would feel an obligation to reduce the deer herd to very low levels. Since personal health is a very low incentive to shoot more deer, the monetary incentives were added. I found the incentive program to be one of the most interesting tactics that the DNR has tried in an effort to get hunters to shoot more deer. They learned that paying hunters to shoot deer in an effort to reduce CWD does not work because hunters don't think is a problem that warrants the shooting of more deer to begin with. I think he learned that hunters do not hunt for reasons as simple as cash.
 
Jordan did not mention this but I suspect one of the reasons the cash incentive program failed was due to the way it was structured. In this case, the odds worked against them. Hunters were paid anywhere from $200 to $400 for every deer that tested positive for CWD.Everyone that submitted a deer was entered into a $20 drawing. Since the odds were so low that a hunter would actually shoot an infected deer, many hunters were paid nothing and the same was true of the random $20 drawing. This was complicated by the suspicion that even if a hunter shot a positive deer that the DNR would tell the hunter that it tested negative in an effort to save money. I don't suggest that was the case but such a rumor would spread fast and kill the program. Jordan thinks that managing the people is far more important than trying to manage the disease. If hunters can be convinced that there is a real need to seriously reduce the herd, that they would and could do just that and everything else will fall into place without agency intervention. It's all about incentives to harvest more deer than one can use. At this point, The DNR has not found any that have worked.
 
The next speaker was Bryan Richards. Bryan is the CWD project leader, USGS National Wildlife Health Center. His presentation is called: "What are other states learning about CWD". We learned that 14 states and a few Canadian Provinces now have CWD but failed to tell us if it was because the disease is spreading or if they have it only because they are now looking for it. When asked about WI, Bryan agrees that CWD has most likely been in WI for "Decades" I found his presentation and tone to be a bit adversarial and and he seemed to have a real dislike for deer farmers. He made a lot of correlations that were questioned by our panel. He did admit that a state that did not allow deer farming, also had CWD and that even though WI has several hundred deer/elk farms that the vast majority of the farms do not have CWD. In talking with the representative of the captive cervid industry that sits on our board, I was told that the majority of those farms are North of Hwy 29 and have not instances of CWD. His talk turned to Colorado and the steps that state has taken in it's 40 year battle with CWD. In the end, Bryan told us that just because Colorado stopped culling that WI should not follow that tactic. I found his talk to be biased in opinion more so than rooted in facts and science.
 
The third speaker was supposed to be the DNR's Senior Vet., Julie Landenberg  but she fell ill and was not in attendance. After lunch we were introduced to Matt Frank who is the newly appointed DNR Secretary. We were given the chance to ask questions and he spent about a half hour fielding questions. That is another topic altogether. With the speakers and presentations complete, we discussed the need to see or hear any other information or data, prior to beginning our task of making recommendations. A few members brought up that we should have a presentation by Nancy Matthews to learn about her telemetry studies and what she learned over the years about deer travel patterns and ranges. Group member Tom Givnish will give a 20 minute talk about how the UK government ended a foot and mouth outbreak by using an extreme eradication program. It was also discussed that we should hear from Dr. James Kroll. Dr. Kroll is a well known whitetail management expert and we agreed to begin by watching a video from Dr. Kroll and then if needed, we would ask him to address the group. The remainder of our day was spent detailing the process and procedures involved with making our recommendations. I grew tired of a talk about how we plan to go about making recommendations and asked that we get to the meat and potatoes. and start brainstorming ideas. We meet again on the 20th of October. 

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